So what did it all mean? What was Born in the U.S.A. then and what is it now? The two of us engaged in a detailed discussion about it, and that has been transcribed below.
***
Dan
I took the liberty of re-listening to Born in the U.S.A. this morning, straight through.
Scott
You know why you could do that? You know why you had that liberty? Freedom. That's why. Sorry, you were saying?
First time in many years I did that.
Scott
And?
Dan
First thing that struck me is fairly obvious—how much Max dominates this album like he hadn't quite before.
Scott
Yeah, boy howdy, there's a disconnect between the music and lyrics of "I'm Going Down," maybe the starkest on the album. I love it, naturally.
Dan
It's common on many of his best albums. Born to Run starts with a big romantic idea and that still exists even at the end of the closing song ("Together they take a stab at romance...") before, of course, falling apart brutally. Darkness begins with defiance ("I don't give a damn for the same ol' played out scenes") and ends with defiance ("I'll be there on time and I'll pay the cost.") Born in the U.S.A. starts with something definitive - something lost, a broken promise, a broken spirit - and ends with the final toll it takes.
Scott
Also, a funny thing? Again, for all the synths are the thing people often first talk about when it comes to this album? The very sound you hear when it starts, even before the synths or drums is...the piano.
Dan
I'm going to say it's sorta kinda whistling past the graveyard. I think the singer means it as he's singing it, trying to convince himself of that fact, even though the rest of the song makes it clear he is, in fact, no such thing.
But. Maybe it's meant to be sarcastic?
Dan
I read today that someone suggested the narrator of the title track was in prison, doing ten years. I'd never heard that before, and don't think I agree. You?
Dan
Scott
Also, weird structure, with those lines being almost the last of the song. It's like verse-semichorus-verse-semichorus-bridge-semichorus, I think? Odd.
Dan
Scott
Okay. Least favorite song on the album?
Dan
Scott
Didn't take you long to think about that one, did it?
Dan
Scott
"Bobby Jean" is easily one of my Top 10 favorite Bruce songs ever, even though, yes, I know it's not one of his best. But I never ever even considered that! Damn.
Scott
[takes a bow] You're welcome.
(That's actually me, by the by.)
Dan
Consider this, too, of what I thought was the happiest song on the album. "No Surrender." Lotta nostalgia there, lotta memories. And I used to hear it as sheer defiance. "No retreat, baby, no surrender." But now, not so much.
Scott
Not that I'm advocating mindless conformity, mind you.
Dan
Scott
REM took a ton of guff, starting with Lifes Rich Pageant and definitely on Document, which may be their best record.
To me, to sum up, this is a great record because Bruce had maybe his most complicated vision to date. It needed to sound like rock-n-roll, like a celebration. But it needed to convey something much darker, much deeper. And it did. More than anything to me, that's the genius of Born in the U.S.A.
Scott
I remember the massive "R.E.M. sold out!" when Green came out.
I think it has a bit less of a coherent vision than Born to Run or Darkness on the Edge of Town or Nebraska or Tunnel of Love—it's more akin to The River, I guess, or Magic—but as a collection of songs it's amazing,with its jarring juxtaposition of dark dark dark lyrics obscured by happy go lucky upbeat music. And it deserves every bit of its astronomical success.
Born in the U.S.A. and Purple Rain kept passing each other for the #1 slot on the charts. Not a bad year for albums, huh?
Dan
Scott
Ayuh. And Like a Virgin. When discussing greatest ever years, 1984 is way up there.
Scott
Scott
And?
Dan
First thing that struck me is fairly obvious—how much Max dominates this album like he hadn't quite before.
Yes. Although you know what I noticed yesterday, listening to it? His drums do...but you can barely hear his cymbals. I remember noticing that at the time, actually, but it hit me again yesterday.
Meanwhile, for all the guff (deserved, to an extent) the synths take, Danny's organ is the really dominant instrument in a bunch of the songs.
DanMeanwhile, for all the guff (deserved, to an extent) the synths take, Danny's organ is the really dominant instrument in a bunch of the songs.
You may very well be right...are the cymbals audible on stuff like "I'm Going Down" and "Bobby Jean?" Thought they were. But damn, right from the get go, those drums are just jarring.
Scott
The thing that hit me was that, for all "Dancing in the Dark" gets singled out as not quite fitting in with the rest of the LP, there's nothing else remotely like the title track either—in fact, there's nothing else in his catalog quite like it. It's got a weird position with hardcore fans—we all know it was misunderstood and we get it...but I'm not sure it's really beloved, either. It may not be sorta kinda disdained the way some of the other songs from this album are, but I'm not sure it's in almost any hardcore fan's top ten either. The only power chord song he ever recorded?
Read about someone reading the lyric sheet the day it was released, hours before he was able to get to a turntable, and thinking it was the most depressing Springsteen ever—even more so than Nebraska. And then he heard the music.
DanRead about someone reading the lyric sheet the day it was released, hours before he was able to get to a turntable, and thinking it was the most depressing Springsteen ever—even more so than Nebraska. And then he heard the music.
Yes about the synths. And I gotta tell you—they work.
One of the main trump cards about Born in the U.S.A. is more than any record he'd done to that point (and likely since) it juxtaposes the upbeat and cheery music with some incredibly dark lyrics. And the synths have a lot to do with that—they set the pace well. Hell, if you listened to just the music, no vocals, you'd think it was a celebration!
ScottOne of the main trump cards about Born in the U.S.A. is more than any record he'd done to that point (and likely since) it juxtaposes the upbeat and cheery music with some incredibly dark lyrics. And the synths have a lot to do with that—they set the pace well. Hell, if you listened to just the music, no vocals, you'd think it was a celebration!
Exactly so. And if you just read the words, you'd think he was trying to combine Woody Guthrie with Sylvia Plath.
Dan
The other main thing was this—the album has a theme of moving on, maturing. Not quite on the emotional level that we'd see in Tunnel of Love, but in terms of transitioning into a new point in his life, into a more mature adult. But it doesn't just do that—it prepares to move on while actively slamming the door on the past. Lines like, "There's a war outside still raging you say it ain't ours anymore to win" from "No Surrender" and "I hope when I get older I don't sit around thinking about it" from "Glory Days" show a conscious cut being made. Or at least trying to be made.
Scott
You know, given where we grew up, by, like, 1986, I was already tired of most of the songs on the album, thanks to our Hartford radio stations playing them non-stop, both classic rock and top 40, as well as 'cuz I played the damn thing to death myself.
But our pal Chris Cullina suggested sitting down and actually listening to the album as an album, front to back, and claimed it held up really well then, and even the tunes I was sick to death of worked in context. And I did and he was right. And that's still the case for me today: when one of the Born in the U.S.A. songs comes up in the rotation on my Springsteen playlist, I'm often a little (just a little!) eye-rolly. But on those very rare occasions when I listen to the entire thing, it totally works.
But our pal Chris Cullina suggested sitting down and actually listening to the album as an album, front to back, and claimed it held up really well then, and even the tunes I was sick to death of worked in context. And I did and he was right. And that's still the case for me today: when one of the Born in the U.S.A. songs comes up in the rotation on my Springsteen playlist, I'm often a little (just a little!) eye-rolly. But on those very rare occasions when I listen to the entire thing, it totally works.
Interesting grab about the moving-on bit. But some of the moving ons are not voluntary: the "Working on the Highway" dude's in the slammer, "Darlington County"'s being forced out of town, Bobby Jean left the narrator. The vet from the title's mired in figurative quicksand, "Downbound Train" can't let go of his lost love (is she dead? did he kill her? is he in prison at the end?)...
Dan
Yes, "Bobby Jean" he's being forced to move on. But "Downbound Train" and "I'm Going Down" (where he realizes it's gone dead cold, albeit in a cheerier sounding way than it does on "Brilliant Disguise") it's clear that he's realizing it's time to forget the past and move ahead. And then with the final track, he's done. He's now preparing to move on, knowing what he had come to expect from these places and people would never be the same.
Scott
I agree with "My Hometown," but I'm not sure I do with the rest. I think he's maybe getting ready to start moving on, but I don't think he's actually even starting to move on yet, much less already moving on. He's maybe ready to start preparing to get ready to move on.
Yeah, boy howdy, there's a disconnect between the music and lyrics of "I'm Going Down," maybe the starkest on the album. I love it, naturally.
Yes, that is what I meant. He's realizing it's time on many, many tracks. And then on "My Hometown" he takes action. Or at least appears as if he's about to.
Scott
And, again, on "I'm Going Down," he realizes all these things...but I think he's still there.
Dan
Agreed. He does realize them, though. That glimmer of hope that used to be there in even his darkest song (Think of "The River," for instance—"but I remember us riding in my brother's car...") ain't really there anymore.
Scott
Interesting.
Dan
Great point about the album front-to-back thematically that Chris offered, and that's exactly the way to listen to it—as a whole narrative. And interestingly, it starts with one raw emotion (anger of the title track) and ends with another raw emotion (resignation of "My Hometown") and those are really the only places we see something so definitive. Everything else in between is couched—yes, he realizes things are changing, but doesn't fully accept it until the end.
It's common on many of his best albums. Born to Run starts with a big romantic idea and that still exists even at the end of the closing song ("Together they take a stab at romance...") before, of course, falling apart brutally. Darkness begins with defiance ("I don't give a damn for the same ol' played out scenes") and ends with defiance ("I'll be there on time and I'll pay the cost.") Born in the U.S.A. starts with something definitive - something lost, a broken promise, a broken spirit - and ends with the final toll it takes.
He did like closing an album quietly back then, didn't he? From The Wild, the Innocent and the E Street Shuffle up until...well...The Ghost of Tom Joad, I guess.
Dan
Kinda The Rising too, no? And Working on a Dream with "The Last Carnival."
Scott
Yeah. It's just that they all ended softly up until The Ghost. And then others still have since, it's just that the streak was unbroken. Or then broken, I guess I mean.
Also, a funny thing? Again, for all the synths are the thing people often first talk about when it comes to this album? The very sound you hear when it starts, even before the synths or drums is...the piano.
Indeed it is. It sounds like a damn Patriot's Day rally.
Let me ask you a question, seeing as how we're kinda talking about the title track.
ScottLet me ask you a question, seeing as how we're kinda talking about the title track.
But of course.
Dan
For all of the rage in his voice and in those words, the last thing he says sticks out like a sore thumb, or at least could. "I'm a cool rockin' Daddy in the USA!" Why does he sing this? Is it defiance? Denial? Is it akin to Robert Plant punctuating things with "Ooh mama mama?" It perplexes me.
Scott
Great question. I remember even Dave Marsh pointed out that line, asking "what the hell does that even mean?"
I'm going to say it's sorta kinda whistling past the graveyard. I think the singer means it as he's singing it, trying to convince himself of that fact, even though the rest of the song makes it clear he is, in fact, no such thing.
But. Maybe it's meant to be sarcastic?
That's what I see—the defiance, convincing himself. As maybe trying to employ that same strut his characters had in "Out in the Street" and songs like that?
Scott
(Tangent: I remember watching No Nukes and noticing that James Taylor's nonsense syllable that he'd vamp on between lines—a lot of singers seem to have their default syllable—was "no." He'd sing "oh no no no no" during "Your Smiling Face" or whatever, and it was really jarring, this upbeat song by a smiley crooner, constantly negating himself.)
I read today that someone suggested the narrator of the title track was in prison, doing ten years. I'd never heard that before, and don't think I agree. You?
No, I don't agree with the prison thesis. I think the narrator has been 10 years home from Vietnam and still lost.
It's a fascinating album, isn't it? At its lightest, it's very lightest, a guy gets arrested and stranded down south, out of work and out of money ("Darlington County"). At it's quietest ("I'm on Fire") something very sinister is lurking. And at its most jubilant ("I'm Going Down," "Glory Days" and "Dancing in the Dark") the guy is out of love, tired and filled with self-hatred.
It's a fascinating album, isn't it? At its lightest, it's very lightest, a guy gets arrested and stranded down south, out of work and out of money ("Darlington County"). At it's quietest ("I'm on Fire") something very sinister is lurking. And at its most jubilant ("I'm Going Down," "Glory Days" and "Dancing in the Dark") the guy is out of love, tired and filled with self-hatred.
Scott
Yeah, buddy, "I'm on Fire" is disturbing.
Dan
"Only you can cool my desire." Um....stay away from my daughter, sir.
Scott
I remember Mr. Reardon talking about that in class, how dark a song it was, and us being all "get outta here!" But, yeah, no, ol' Paulie was right on the money on that one.
Dan
He was! Hell, "I'm On Fire" could've been a prequel to, say, "State Trooper."
Scott
Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby, edgy and dull
and cut a six inch valley through the middle of my skull.
At night I wake up with the sheets soaking wet
and a freight train running through the middle of my head.
DanScott
Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby, edgy and dull
and cut a six inch valley through the middle of my skull.
At night I wake up with the sheets soaking wet
and a freight train running through the middle of my head.
And remember, that was a line in a popular song!
Scott
Yeah, Mr. Reardon's story was about hearing his 7-year-old daughter walking around singing it and thinking, hold the phone...
Scott
Yeah, Mr. Reardon's story was about hearing his 7-year-old daughter walking around singing it and thinking, hold the phone...
Now, maybe it's just 'cuz I've been reading a bio of Ted Bundy recently...but...I dunno, man...Mr. Everyman Bruce Springsteen sure seems to go some dark damn places sometimes...
Also, weird structure, with those lines being almost the last of the song. It's like verse-semichorus-verse-semichorus-bridge-semichorus, I think? Odd.
Ayuh. Can't you see this guy getting up out of his soaked bed, loading a body into his trunk, heading down the NJ Turnpike and praying that a cop doesn't pull him over? Because he knows he'll have to kill the cop?
Scott
That's exactly so. Yes. Yeah, this is not a well man.
Okay. Least favorite song on the album?
"Cover Me."
Scott
Didn't take you long to think about that one, did it?
Dan
I know it's a better dong than I give it credit for. It's dark and it's edgy and the band plays brilliantly. I just don't feel it, I guess. Which is rare for me on his more popular songs.
Scott
Yup. Agreed. But "Working on the Highway" isn't far apart for me.
Dan
The only reason I appreciate "Working" more than "Cover" is it's so upbeat and happy sounding. And the lyrics are so not. It's almost over the top; absurd that he made a song that started off as the terrifying "Child Bride" sound like that.
Scott
Scott
You know, thinking it over, I wonder if this is one of the very few albums by any artist I like where I vastly prefer the second side.
Dan
Me too! I mean, the album's best song is "Born in the USA". But I could argue it's 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th best all come on Side 2.
And there are still some of those "Child Bride" hints in there.
Dan
I love the line, "I looked straight at her and she looked straight back."
Scott
Again, knowing the song's origins...disturbing.
You know, thinking it over, I wonder if this is one of the very few albums by any artist I like where I vastly prefer the second side.
Me too! I mean, the album's best song is "Born in the USA". But I could argue it's 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th best all come on Side 2.
Scott
Oh, hey, you'll like this: you know what struck me about "Bobby Jean" yestereve? Bobby's essentially that most wonderful of fictitious creations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manic_Pixie_Dream_Girl
Dan"Bobby Jean" is easily one of my Top 10 favorite Bruce songs ever, even though, yes, I know it's not one of his best. But I never ever even considered that! Damn.
Scott
[takes a bow] You're welcome.
(That's actually me, by the by.)
Dan
Consider this, too, of what I thought was the happiest song on the album. "No Surrender." Lotta nostalgia there, lotta memories. And I used to hear it as sheer defiance. "No retreat, baby, no surrender." But now, not so much.
Scott
Jesus, there's nothing that's really close to a happy song on the entire album, is there? You get duped, even if you know better, by the sing-songy "sha-la-la"s and such. "Hey a bop-a-bee-down-down." (That's a direct quote.)
Dan
Because he says this, "we made a promise..." He's talking about a promise they made, not a promise they kept. And even though he wants to keep it ("I want to sleep 'neath the peaceful skies...with a wide open country in my heart and these romantic dreams in my head.") we're not sure he actually does. And since he says things like "The walls of my room are closing in," that could be evidence right there that that dream died too.
Scott
Yup. Yup. He wants those things...'cuz he ain't got 'em. Maybe because he refused to make any concessions whatsoever.
Scott
Yup. Yup. He wants those things...'cuz he ain't got 'em. Maybe because he refused to make any concessions whatsoever.
Not that I'm advocating mindless conformity, mind you.
But it's so wonderfully crafted. Hell, he culled these 12 songs out of more than 100. Leaving a ton of A-List material ("Janey Don't You Lose Heart," "Shut Out the Light," "My Love Will Not Let You Down") by the wayside. He had a vision, clearly. This is very much on purpose. And this was the album that launched him as a megstar—the one with the most upbeat music and downbeat lyrics of his career. How'd he do that?
Scott
It's intoxicating and disorienting to consider what could have been, if he'd nixed "Cover Me" for "My Love Will Not Let You Down" or whatever. I mean, and I know we've talked about this oh so many times, but for FSM's sake he cut "Janey, Don't You Lose Heart."
Sweet fancy.
Dan
Ayuh. And yet, can you really hear "Janey," even though it's better than at least half the tracks on the album, fitting on Born in the U.S.A.?
Scott
No, that's the thing. I can't. At all. Or "Shut Out the Light" even though, again, better than much of the album. And that goes for so many of them. When others put together alternate track listings, including things like "Man at the Top," I just can't wrap my head around it—the album's too much a part of my DNA.
DanSweet fancy.
Dan
Ayuh. And yet, can you really hear "Janey," even though it's better than at least half the tracks on the album, fitting on Born in the U.S.A.?
Scott
No, that's the thing. I can't. At all. Or "Shut Out the Light" even though, again, better than much of the album. And that goes for so many of them. When others put together alternate track listings, including things like "Man at the Top," I just can't wrap my head around it—the album's too much a part of my DNA.
I now realize why it was so maligned all those years ago—for Bruce's hardcore fans, it was so different. Maybe even more different than Nebraska. It didn't necessarily feel different in 1984, but it was.
Scott
It's also always a mixed bag when your favorite artist breaks through to massive mainstream success.
We felt it, to some extent, with REM, even if we were actually happy for them. Or if The Replacements had managed it, maybe, instead or repeatedly shooting themselves in the feets.
DanScott
It's also always a mixed bag when your favorite artist breaks through to massive mainstream success.
We felt it, to some extent, with REM, even if we were actually happy for them. Or if The Replacements had managed it, maybe, instead or repeatedly shooting themselves in the feets.
Indeed it is. Though how in the hell did anyone hear that opening of "Born in the USA" and not pop up and scream "HELL YEAH!"
REM took a ton of guff, starting with Lifes Rich Pageant and definitely on Document, which may be their best record.
To me, to sum up, this is a great record because Bruce had maybe his most complicated vision to date. It needed to sound like rock-n-roll, like a celebration. But it needed to convey something much darker, much deeper. And it did. More than anything to me, that's the genius of Born in the U.S.A.
Scott
I remember the massive "R.E.M. sold out!" when Green came out.
I think it has a bit less of a coherent vision than Born to Run or Darkness on the Edge of Town or Nebraska or Tunnel of Love—it's more akin to The River, I guess, or Magic—but as a collection of songs it's amazing,with its jarring juxtaposition of dark dark dark lyrics obscured by happy go lucky upbeat music. And it deserves every bit of its astronomical success.
Born in the U.S.A. and Purple Rain kept passing each other for the #1 slot on the charts. Not a bad year for albums, huh?
Wow. I would say so. Along with Reckoning and Let it Be or Zen Arcade on the indy circuit, and stuff like War and Speaking in Tongues (I think) in the mainstream.
Scott
Ayuh. And Like a Virgin. When discussing greatest ever years, 1984 is way up there.
Dan
Indeed it is. And one very big reason dates back 30 years today my friend. June 4, 1984.
Scott
Hey, nice capper.
DanScott
Hey, nice capper.
It's TAPPER!
Scott
I'm sorry, who?
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